Curse

lacasner · Nov 25, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I believe most decent PvE'ers were asking for more difficult content as well.

We still are...

Shadowspawn X · Nov 25, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

In closing, I feel the end game in Nightfall is too hard for average players, and I think it will turn people off from the game once they discover that it's the area with the most lucrative drops and that they cannot go very far there on their own.

Not at all, the game is very balanced and though some mobs are strong in the realm, it was balanced with the lightbringer skills, which basically makes the area a cakewalk. Even Menzies shadow army fall like dust to the gaze of the lightbringer. Just gotta use your head and have fun.

Cid · Nov 25, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I'm an average player. It's just fine

max gladius · Nov 25, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I am not an average player, I too find it challenging, but the challenge is why I am here. If it were a walk in the park, then I would be board. I have been working on the Master Cartogarpher title for Elona, lots of areas it is not runnable to map, as Cantha and Ascalon were for the most part. I enjoy the challenge, and have mapped the entire area, well 97.8% as of this moment with nothing but heros and henches... it is slow moving, but I for one realy enjoy the challenge.

Angelica · Nov 26, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It is only hard due to the average skill level of PuG players being very low. You have to take into account people improving and adapting to areas, and if it started off as easy for an average player then in time it would be almost mindless.

I hate to brag but it reminds me of when ToPK was first converted to a PvE arena, and the threads back then complaining about how hard it was. I found them most amusing after having completed it on our first run on the day it came out with a four man group.

Ok I love to brag about that, it gives me immense pleasure.

You find "immense pleasure" from a game? Your RL must be very dull.

Amyway my opinion is that not everybody is a pro and I really would like to see this game with at least three levels of difficulties (spl?):
1 - normal or easy for the caual player like myself!

2 - Difficult or medium hard.
3 - Very hard or hard core for bored or pro gamers.
Of course the rewards will be adeguate to the level of difficulty.

If these above were actually real I think everybody would be happy and there would be not many complain.

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 26, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I hate to judge somebody as a good or bad player in just one mission pug. There are some really good players I've seen totaly screw up in a mission they weren't familiar with.

You guys do realize JR is a moderator -right? That's the second time today I saw someone Really put JR down. seems kinda dangerous lol

Matsumi · Nov 26, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I think the only area I got sort of tense in was the domain of fear. I've been through the game so far with 3 different characters, but everytime I have to go through there, the environmental effects, combined with the patrolling mobs gets kind of hairy. lol, but I enjoy every minute of it.

baddog992 · Nov 26, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Ya i kinda of agree with the original Op, the higher up you go on the missions the less people you see. I mean take factions later missions like beating the dragon very few people liked that mission, and the place hardly had anyone there. The harder the mission the fewer people you will find in the room, i have not yet got to any of the upper missions yet, but it sounds like the same thing.

I like a challenge but what about the mass public? Do they want to be stuck in one mission replaying it 6 or even more times? A game should be enjoyable by all not just the elite or upper crust players, i sometimes wonder about this very topic, a very good question, and im not sure of the answer.

Omega X · Nov 26, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelica

You find "immense pleasure" from a game? Your RL must be very dull.

That has nothing to do with RL.

I've seen people get immense pleasure from far more simpler things.(get your mind out of the gutter) :P

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 26, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I'm a newbie to online gaming but I can honestly say that I'm not having a hard time at all with Nightfall. In fact I'm progressing much faster than in Prophecies or Factions. Granted I'm using my first and best character and have a team of lvl20, pimped out Heroes. The AI problem is annoying but I'm starting to get the hang of it and am adjusting. Now I do Well of Blood after the first monster dies instead of making minions. Simple. The bad part about being a caster is that you don't have any moves that Cripple. *lol* The best way to ensure you don't get mobbed by monsters when you're a caster is to put your Heroes on Guard so they will stay close to you. Acolyte Sosuke's Ward Against Melee is pretty handy when he's standing right next to you, taking all the aggro that would have been directed at you. The solution to harder gameplay is careful planning and the ability of make decisions quickly. Its unlikely that anyone who plays GW is a stranger to RPG's so I'm sure that most of the players are used to difficult quests and missions. GW is a co-op RPG so if people are having a hard time all they have to do is co-op with other people. Co-op play is sorta the whole point of GW.

Angelica · Nov 26, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

You guys do realize JR is a moderator -right? That's the second time today I saw someone Really put JR down. seems kinda dangerous lol

Sorry if I offended JR but it really disturb me when people put down other players that are not so good at the game as they are and take pleasure at telling everybody! It doesn't matter who they are if he wishes to ban me .... no problem let him do it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

That has nothing to do with RL.

I've seen people get immense pleasure from far more simpler things.(get your mind out of the gutter) :P

What do you mean by that? My mind has never been in the gutter, please explain.

jackie · Nov 26, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Difficult, frustrating and maybe unfair to some would be a game that wouldn't have any resurrection points in zones, so back you fly to outpost when you die.

There would be money/experience penalty when player dies.

Dungeons/Elite Areas would take 8 hours minimum to complete even with experienced team and no cookies from err7.

To get a shiny armour one would have to grind 100 magical fairy dust that have 0,0001% chance to drop from a boss that is located in the end of 3 hour mission and that would be impossible to solo.

---------
So far Guild Wars has managed to avoid some of those above mentioned things that exist in some other games out there. I wouldn't consider Guild Wars a frustratingly difficult game.

Yes it might have challenging moments but never does it actually punish player from failuring or put them into unfair position.

Thallandor · Nov 27, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Having able to complete Nightfall twice with only Heros + Hencies, to me the Realms of Torment is frustrating just as some parts of factions which is a disturbing trend for guildwars. If this continues, the future imo seems bleak if the element of fun is out weighted by the cumulative frustration of playing the game, which is self defeating.

Not forgetting that Anet favors "balancing" the game for the PvP component of the game and even stimulate the "PvP" environment in the PvE component of the game which is utter BS along with its war against sweatshop gold farmers with normal farming players as collateral. I do hope for Anet sakes that they have a PvP population large enough to keep supporting them for the future chapters to come since theres only this much BS players will put up with before they leave the cesspit eg. SWG.

Dont underestimate the effects of bad word of mouth over the internet.

-Loki- · Nov 27, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I hate to brag but it reminds me of when ToPK was first converted to a PvE arena, and the threads back then complaining about how hard it was. I found them most amusing after having completed it on our first run on the day it came out with a four man group.

Ok I love to brag about that, it gives me immense pleasure.

If I recall, your original BP group is what the current BP format is derived from. But instead a minion master you used 2 stance tanks. I remember because I was in the first group to run it. I also remember it was a hell of alot more successful than the current BP groups, as you had controlled bodyblocking.

Jaceb · Nov 27, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

I played Prophecies _very_ long time ago, back in the old THK days. I didn't buy factions until recently along with Nightfall but started NF campaing instead (as paragon) and beat it yesterday.

It started similar ways almost as Prophecies ie. smooth sailing until Torment where i was welcomed by a brick wall or so i thought at first. I was wrong though, just had to adjust my playingstyle and skills to overcome some difficulties (global debuffs, patrols), sure my group kept wiping from time to time but mostly it was my own fault. I have to say though that there are some groups of torments that beat everything (ie. 5x rain of terrors). But planning and body pulling is the key in surviving torment (imo).

Regardless, i dont think NF is "too hard" for average gw-player but maybe slightly for newcomers but isn't the feeling great when you beat something difficult even if it made you frustrated?. Just like with the THK when i first beat it, i could hardly believe it to be true, it felt great.

As for the future of GW - no idea what they'll plan to do but completely new story is now needed and just bring it on (just not the overpowered mob-groups) .

AncientLord · Nov 27, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

A good game is meant to be challenging - not a walk in a park. If a player isn't up to the challenge, then it's not game's fault.

To over come a challenge = rewarding = gaming euphoria.

How it is writen ? "QFT" i think... Also when u are party with henc. everthing depends from u alone, when and how will u atack and kill the mob = monsters. By your posting i see u lack of knowledge how to play beter. I mean in a way that you need to use ur brain becouse of really imprevise and good AI (that is my opinions about ai) how to kill it.

I am necro ingame and i also must think what to do at next step, not just rush into the mobs so they kill me. Using brains helps a lot and if you will look at whole situation with difirent corner while you are atacking youl see a point where you can brake the monsters out there.

The game it self is not hard, otherwise it woud not be any challenge for 10-15 kidds who just camed into the game. Me and everbody (almost) on this planet are not served with golden plate at start of our lives.

Regards.

AncientLord

WhiteZombie · Nov 27, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

the thing about guild wars, like 99% of rpgs out there, is that its static. everyone and their dog moaned about THK back in the day, and back then the whole crystal desert was actually a bit tough to hench with only alesia. those issues ironed out over time because people started to know what they were doing. the issues in nightfall will do much the same.

Ninna · Nov 27, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

well said

many who played Prophecies on release, back in Spring 2005
remember all bitching and moaning about the Desert, Doppelganger and beyond

give it time and people learn to surpass all challenges - even newcomers

unless you were in beta, everyone was newcomer to Prophecies

stiffler · Nov 27, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I henched all of NF and I consider myself an average player, if you run your hero builds correctly it isn't that hard.

=HT=Ingram · Nov 27, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

well last 2 times though Gate of Madness was with a general PUG and they were flawless masters missions. We went on to do Abaddon's Gate and had him down in 4 rinse repeats of right, left, center, Abaddon (Spike / Degen) *2, pullback; ... Easy Masters on that too...

so no I don't think the end game content is too hard at all. Its difficult for sure, but if you have played your way through the game to that point you should have no problem playing it out.

Now your saying OK sure maybe on your character right? Well on one I was a ranger, Just TRY to get a PUG as a ranger... Its laughable, but in all it was lucrative to be a good disruptor in Gates of Madness.

The second time through I was a Mesmer. Again. Very hard to get a PUG as this class. But again Disruption / energy denial is key to making these missions easy.

Now I would say I am an average player at best. I am not uber tankage or elite farmer, or even Major spikage. I play maybe what 3 or 4 times aggressively in a month. or more accurately 1 hardcore weekend a month. I get all my progress in during those times in PvE. I play other games from just GW as well, so even though I have been AROUND in GW from the early betas, its not been everyday by any means.

My guild and alliance pretty much run themselves and only need to get me for a relatively minor issue here or there. I give them plenty of autonomy. As such we are not Huge, but we are a good collection of friends from all over the world now.

Whats the point of this? IT does not take an EXPERT to finish the game. Not even a die hard every day grinder to play the game with uber weapons and skills. Sure they help, as anything does. But the basic core skills plenty to take down the end game missions. Use some of your game logic you have built to that point to guide your parties build for some balance. and if things get out of hand maybe slow down a little and THINK about what you are doing wrong in the mission. You will get through it in no time flat.

The ones that will NOT are those that just run or more accurately GET run through the game with ZERO knowledge of how or why a build works. And what to expect or is expected of a player when they join a PUG. This is why I discourage this activity. BUT all in all I know it will not stop. Just as I know Ebay is the most disgusting aspect of this or any game.

I really wish in many ways that the entire concept of item trading was abolished, and the possibility of selling items to people in game or out of game for real money was gone. Yes that would mean that around, what; 200,000 maybe 300,000 accounts would be gone overnight. SO be it, I say. It would be worth it to the people that actually PLAY this game for what it is and not make more of it then it was designed to be.